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Author Topic: By FIRE be Purged!  (Read 3016 times)

Merry76

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By FIRE be Purged!
« on: May 18, 2015, 03:05:20 PM »
We had fire damage in the game for a while now (it was hopelessly overpowered for a while, when a torch could one-shot a mant shortly after they where introduced), and modding is sort-of usable right now...

So I got thinking on how to implement fire as a proper weapon (elite soldiers holding torches to hit stuff with sounds silly in my book). Just letting the blacksmith forge "fire swords" that afterwards deal out fire damage seems to be a bit cheap to me. Using fire as a weapon also should come at a somewhat high cost, as fire pretty much mops the floor with armour (and aparently still with mants, who are made of burning stuff).

But we have to use what is in the game, so no gnomes drilling for oil to convert it to petrol. The burning stuff we have is wood and coal (which is processed wood, or mined). We cant yet butchering mants for their chitin, which would probably also burn, and give them a reason to exist. My idea was now to get tar or naphta from boiling wood, ideally in a special workshop (some graphics may be needed (destillery?), or we can nab the alchemists workbench - should it be implemented), or in the smelter. Tar isnt very exciting, it is very sticky and has a high flamming point. Naphta would be the best material, as it was used in primitive throwing weapons in historic times. Naphta might also have been a component of greek fire ;) Because it is harder to get, it should take about 5 wood to smelt one unit of Naphta (this is a guess.. might need more or less).

Now to the usages: it could be used with a fire crossbow (special crossbow that is equipped to fire Naphta containing bolts (crafted from wood/metal (or wood/metal and glass)), over a not-as far distance as a normal crossbow, dealing fire damage. Those bolts probably are not as aerodynamic as proper steel bolts. Uses crossbow skill.
Naphta thrower is the gun version of the naphta dispenser. Uses the gun skill; fires raw, burning naphta about as far as a pistol fires, but uses both hands.

I would love to make a throwing weapon, but I am not entirely sure on how to deal with throwing weapons tbh (and because they have no skill assigned, its going to be hard). Could add it to "brawling", make a "throwing glove" and give it ammo like the shooty weapons do... have to experiment if this would work.

Of course, damage values would have to be adjusted becaus I dont want fire to be the ultimate weapon. It should be cool, expensive and fun to use. If its borderline awesome but impractical, its probably the best balancing.

Naphta could also be used to power ultraheavy steam armour, but I am not yet sure on how equipment can be powered at all. This might be too weird to simply mod it into the game.

What do you guys think? Do you want to kill your enemies with fire? Silly question, of course you want to... But would you want an implementation like this?
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gcook725

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 04:49:11 PM »
Alcohol is also flammable. Just saying.

Pitch/Tar is created by heating wood and causing the tar to drip away, leaving charcoal... Pity you can't have 2 outputs from a crafting recipe or you can just roll it into coal production and have the pitch used to make torches instead of coal.

In antiquity, fire weapons ranged from burning pitch/oil being poured on enemies from above to fire pots that were thrown.

Most militarized uses of fire I can think of are ranged based instead of melee based however... Flamethrowers, fire bomb launchers, etc.

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Merry76

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 10:45:16 AM »
Alcohol is also flammable. Just saying.

Destilling the spirit out of wine would work, but would probably be very cheap as I usually practically drown in fruit/wine.

But pure alcohol isnt that scary as naphta/tar/pitch because it doesnt stick around for very long. The other options stick while they burn, which makes them very unpleasant and dangerous.

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JadedSins

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2015, 08:12:40 PM »
I have an idea about the mechanized armour, like an automaton, but requires a gnome inside to operate instead of a golem core, would have to hit harder, be bigger(22, if at all possible), require more armour plates and needs to run off of naphta for increased power output needed, any weapons needed would have to be specially crafted and installed, the gnomes skill with type of weapon the MechSuit uses would determine the MechSuits skills, combat only, would require expensive repairs and long time if something breaks gnome can exit if it breaks completely, can't wear any armour or weapons as the MechSuit  would take up all armor and weapon slots
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Merry76

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2015, 06:08:26 AM »
In a very, very old post, RoboB0b said something about bigger than one square enemies (or own troops). As it currently stands, the engine cant support bigger than 1 square enemies. Otherwise, ogres would probably already be bigger than that.
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JadedSins

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2015, 01:29:36 PM »
22 ogres?!?!? I have to redesign my entrance... would they be 2 tall as well? And how would they like stairs? Would butchering them give more leather? And would they be tougher? Mabey the ogres now could be young ogres and the 22 ogres are the next step in goblin attacks? Sorry about all of the questions, I'm curious.

Edit: I know non of this will happen in the near future, probably, but I like to be prepared
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 04:39:58 PM by JadedSins »
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Merry76

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2015, 02:07:38 PM »
What I meant was: its cant happen. Enemies and gnomes cant surpass 1 tile of size, even if you mod in a battle tank.

Which, given the setting, you probably shouldnt. Dreadnoughts are ok though. I guess.
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JadedSins

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2015, 05:43:07 PM »
 :-[ Oh, OK, but we still might have MechSuits? :D (That aren't 2x2)
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Pachun

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 03:39:11 PM »
Alcohol is also flammable. Just saying.

Destilling the spirit out of wine would work, but would probably be very cheap as I usually practically drown in fruit/wine.

But pure alcohol isnt that scary as naphta/tar/pitch because it doesnt stick around for very long. The other options stick while they burn, which makes them very unpleasant and dangerous.

Daman naphta, I remember playing against the ottomans in M2TW and those f*ck*rs would man the main gates and burn all of my rams, or wait for the siege towers to deploy and "grenade" them... pretty much like in Kingdom of Heaven.

Merry76

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Re: By FIRE be Purged!
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2015, 01:25:31 PM »
:-[ Oh, OK, but we still might have MechSuits? :D (That aren't 2x2)

If it comes to values, sure. I am crap when it comes to graphics however, so if anyone can provide some MechSuit graphics...

It might be tricky to implement fuel for MechSuits however. Maybe I can steal the automaton behaviour somewhere. It would be reasonably epic to have it ;)
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