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Author Topic: Current Gameplay Focus - Management  (Read 34675 times)

RoboB0b

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Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« on: October 30, 2012, 08:50:41 PM »
With today's patch out, I think it's time to take a break from combat for a while.  Tomorrow will be 3 months since the start of the current combat focus and a lot of missing things related to combat have been added - ranged combat, hospitals, squad perks, new enemies, etc.  I will continue to fix combat issues as they come up or adjust balance when necessary but the overall focus will move to the general management aspects of Gnomoria.

Some things I am considering working on during this focus:

Crafting - A lot of crafting recipes are placeholder.  When filling these out, I think crafting will get a bit of an overhaul.

Crafting recipes will have their quantities lowered but in general have more steps.  Also, the amount of time it takes to craft once all the items are gathered will go up a little but there will be less items to haul. Combined with more crafting steps, the overall progression will end up slowing down a little bit.

With some of the burden moving from hauling to crafting, a higher crafting skill will help speed up crafting more than it currently does.  Also, currently every item has a skill requirement to craft but that skill level is 1.  Some items will start to have higher skill requirements to craft too.

Item quality doesn't seem to be generating correctly.  I'm going to take a look at how quality is determined again and make sure that it's more consistent for a given crafter skill and recipe skill requirement.

Item values will also need to be adjusted during these crafting changes.  Since Kingdom Worth is closely tied to enemy spawns, the formulas for those spawns will need to be adjusted along with the value changes.

Item Quality - With item quality working as intended, quality filters will need to be added.  Merchants, stockpiles and uniform UI will get options to select or view items by quality.  With these changes, item quality will increase the effectiveness of weapons and armor.  Stockpiles will also get a filter for specific materials.

Merchants - Merchants will start to offer better items than they currently do based on your Kingdom Worth.  Merchant trade rates will get adjusted as well.

Workshops - There has been a lot of good feedback for improving workshops that I'm excited to start implementing.

Workshops will get a "Craft To" option that will craft an item as long as the current amount is lower than the specified number.  For example, crafting a plank and entering "Craft To 5" will queue a job to craft a plank when there are 4 or less planks but have no effect when there are 5 or more. (Added in 0.8.19.0)

"Repeat" will be changed to simply not be removed from the list after crafting.  Currently, it only skips the job in the queue if required materials are missing.  For example, in the current setup if you have Sausage, Bread and Sandwich in your workshop queue and all on Repeat, it will craft sausages until there is no more meat and then start on bread.  When new meat is available, crafting sausages will take priority over bread.  With the changes, it will craft 1 sausage, 1 bread, 1 sandwich and repeat.  If you run out of Wheat, it will craft 1 sausage , skip bread and then craft 1 sandwich if able.  If both methods are desired, I'll add an option on the workshop for how it should handle Repeat tasks.

Workshops can be assigned a gnome and only that gnome will be allowed to work there.  I'm also considering linking a stockpile to a workshop so that newly crafted items will stock there. I'm still considering if this is necessary and if those items can ONLY be stocked there and/or if other items are allowed to be stocked there.

Butcher shop needs some improvements.  I'll add a filter for Pastures, so that specific animals can more easily be selected to butcher.  When viewing livestock and corpses, there will be an item to queue it to be butchered at the closest butcher shop.  There will also be options to have excess animals in a pasture and corpses to automatically be queued to butcher.

Tinker bench is missing it's UI entirely and needs to be added.  Right now the tinkering progression is completely linear but if adding new items ends up adding tinkering options then I'll add the choice of what to tinker next here.

UI and usability - I'll do another pass on UI in general.  There have been suggestions that I'd like to add like sorting gnomes in the population window and adding arrow buttons on menus, like gnome stats, to cycle through everyone as well as tracking more item quantities on the HUD.  I'll look into giving better feedback for why jobs aren't being accepted and more control for prioritizing jobs.

Tree farms - These will be designations like farms but for trees. The orchard will work just like current farms but for fruit trees.  So, apple trees will be planted and apples will be picked when available.  The grove will automate planting saplings, cutting clippings and felling trees. (Added in 0.8.19.0)

Other stuff - I'm going to adjust the formula for determining how many gnomads spawn so there isn't a soft cap around 45 gnomes.  Claiming items for jobs will change so that items will remain claimed to a job when a gnome stops work on the job.  I'll add a way to salvage items back into it's components, but I'm not sure if it'll be 100% refund or not.  I'll be adding some more building options like fences, tombs, thrones, etc too.

Audio - Not exactly related, but I want to take the time at this stage to also add in sound effects as well as some changes to music and how music is played.


As always, I'll be fixing bugs along the way and listening to feedback.  I'm sure changes will come up that aren't covered in this list.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 08:38:44 PM by bvierra »

Vertal

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2012, 09:33:05 PM »
Awesome, I like how much useful stuff has been added recently. Combat is in a good(not perfect) place now.

Can we expect to see equipment and iron/gold/platinum ore being sold by merchants?
Will bones ever find a use?
Will mants and golems ever have items to give you a reward for killing them?

R86

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2012, 10:00:28 PM »
A more complex crafting system sounds really exciting, but make sure to put in good tooltips so we know what we're supposed to build to get all these new fangled whatcamacallits.

Tree farms, automated butcher, and "Craft to" all are huge quality of life improvements. Especially excited for the "craft to."

On assigning a workshop to a specific gnome, it would be cool if the drop down list ranked the gnomes by listing the ones with the highest related skill first. It would also be neat if we had a filter that only allowed gnomes with at least a specific skill level to work that shop, like a kitchen that only allowed gnomes with at least 30 skill to cook there that could be set to making sandwhiches. Then we could have a filter that was "at most" and set it up as a training kitchen, where new cooks would practice by making sausages and bread.

The current repeat system also serves as a task priority system. For example: "I want you to make sandwhiches if possible. If it isn't possible, then craft the things I need for sandwhiches." It works because sausages are normally the limiting factor, but if you have an equal number of meat and wheat, your gnome will make all of the meat first then a bread then a sandwhich. The downside to the new system is if you have enough stuff to make a sandwhich, you'll still make the ingredients at the same rate as new sandwhiches. The new system's downside is less bad though, so thumbs up!

Will "craft to" count already built items? For instance, I want to say "Craft to 50 beds" and have it make all of my beds I'll ever need, but I don't want it to make 50 more when I finish my dorm. On the opposite side, I want to create a torch stockpile that holds 10 torches and Craft to 10 torches to keep my stockpile full while I'm constructing torches. The first situation I'll just cancel the craft to order, so no big deal, so you should have Craft to not count already built things.

Or if you let us link workshops to stockpiles, you could let us specify if the stockpile was an "input" or an "output" and the crafter would only use coal and planks from its input stockpiles and craft torches until its furniture output stockpile was full. This would give us a way to absolutely prevent our crafter from hauling far away items.

Gojira

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2012, 11:29:05 PM »
A little something I'd like to suggest be looked into.

Since I started getting into combat more with the latest patches, I've been a bit frustrated with how civilians react to an enemy nearby. Rather than running for safety (the fortress, where the soldiers are), they'll run pretty much directly away from the enemy, often ending up with them being cornered miles away from the fort and getting slaughtered before help can arrive.

I've also lost some gnomes to having them go outside the fort to try and perform queued jobs or to pick up items while combat is still going on. I've been sat screaming at my gnomes because they're suicidally charging into the middle of a fight to try and pick up a corpse.

So, would it be possible to have gnomes who are not part of a military squad retreat into the fort (maybe to the great hall or nearest guard area?) when an enemy is spotted and not come out until all spotted enemies are dealt with? Or something to reduce their lemming like behaviour at least please. :)

Merry76

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2012, 01:06:25 AM »
So, would it be possible to have gnomes who are not part of a military squad retreat into the fort (maybe to the great hall or nearest guard area?) when an enemy is spotted and not come out until all spotted enemies are dealt with? Or something to reduce their lemming like behaviour at least please. :)

That would require a "save zone" Designated Area. If scared, run to next save Zone. Might still lead them exactly through the enemies, but if it does, its your fault, not the games (wich is entirely acceptable).
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Gojira

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 04:42:15 AM »
That would require a "save zone" Designated Area. If scared, run to next save Zone. Might still lead them exactly through the enemies, but if it does, its your fault, not the games (wich is entirely acceptable).

I'd rather have them charge blindly towards a safe zone in the hope that help will arrive before they die, than them charging blindly to the far corner of the map where they'll definitely die.

Tffen

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 05:25:40 AM »
Might I just add than I'd really like to be able to scroll in every menu where there's a scroll bar?
With 40+ gnomes it's an unnecessary chore to have to "manually" scroll to the bottom to assign gnomads to other roles, and ofc some of the other menus are a bit slow when not being able to scroll with the mouse wheel.

Temeez

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2012, 05:40:19 AM »
Might I just add than I'd really like to be able to scroll in every menu where there's a scroll bar?
With 40+ gnomes it's an unnecessary chore to have to "manually" scroll to the bottom to assign gnomads to other roles, and ofc some of the other menus are a bit slow when not being able to scroll with the mouse wheel.

This has annoyed me too quite much.
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RedDagger

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2012, 08:07:45 AM »
Fantastic! The ideas exposed in the OP would solve the great majority of my current issues, except two. Would you consider taking a look at them too?

1) Gnomes dropping their weapons/tools when they go do something else. Ideally, if they are not in combat they should only do so for two reasons: they can get a better one or their uniform/profession no longer requires it. Perhaps allow us to craft a new piece of equipment that they can use to sheath their tool of trade when they go to eat or haul another item.

2) This isn't really related to industry, but is also a periodic annoyance. A major slowdown occurs to the game whenever a gnome becomes trapped, even when we manage to pause the game. Whatever the game is processing it should count the number of tries and give up at some point (after that it only tries again once every 30 in-game minutes or something), and certainly it should not be doing that processing while the game is paused.


Tinker bench is missing it's UI entirely and needs to be added.  Right now the tinkering progression is completely linear but if adding new items ends up adding tinkering options then I'll add the choice of what to tinker next here.

Being able to suspend and give priority to the thinker bench would be good, but I don't think it makes much sense to be able to directly control what is being researched (a linear progression also makes no sense, for that matter). A sizable number of inventions were done by change, not because the people involved were actively trying to invent something specific (with exceptions, of course). Perhaps we could be given general areas instead of picking specific items to research:
- "We really need better weapons to fight off the threats on our kingdom" leads to crossbows and fire weapons.
- "Let's build a technology utopia" leads to mechanisms, windmills, pressure plates, etc
- "We need some better defenses" leads to traps, and any defense oriented content to be added
- "We would benefit from a stronger industry", industry related inventions

Girlinhat

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2012, 08:08:59 AM »
One of my biggest questions:
Will there be automated butchering?  Ideally, one pasture could be slaved to a butcher shop, so that any animals that are in the pasture are butchered immediately, allowing you to have a low-priority pasture where all overflow animals go and get processed.  Additionally, linking a butcher shop to a corpse stockpile would allow for auto-butching of goblin and yak corpses as they arrive.

Xinvoker

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2012, 08:27:01 AM »
"Craft to", Tree Farms, and Audio are the things I'm looking most forward to.  :)
And the HUD changes, if implemented.
Someone on another thread mentioned using the scroll wheel for menus like the gnome list. That'd be nice too.

One of my biggest questions:
Will there be automated butchering?  Ideally, one pasture could be slaved to a butcher shop, so that any animals that are in the pasture are butchered immediately, allowing you to have a low-priority pasture where all overflow animals go and get processed.  Additionally, linking a butcher shop to a corpse stockpile would allow for auto-butching of goblin and yak corpses as they arrive.

That's mentioned in the OP  ;)

Quote
Butcher shop needs some improvements.  I'll add a filter for Pastures, so that specific animals can more easily be selected to butcher.  When viewing livestock and corpses, there will be an item to queue it to be butchered at the closest butcher shop.  There will also be options to have excess animals in a pasture and corpses to automatically be queued to butcher.

xocomil

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2012, 08:28:28 AM »
Tinker bench is missing it's UI entirely and needs to be added.  Right now the tinkering progression is completely linear but if adding new items ends up adding tinkering options then I'll add the choice of what to tinker next here.

Being able to suspend and give priority to the thinker bench would be good, but I don't think it makes much sense to be able to directly control what is being researched (a linear progression also makes no sense, for that matter). A sizable number of inventions were done by change, not because the people involved were actively trying to invent something specific (with exceptions, of course). Perhaps we could be given general areas instead of picking specific items to research:
- "We really need better weapons to fight off the threats on our kingdom" leads to crossbows and fire weapons.
- "Let's build a technology utopia" leads to mechanisms, windmills, pressure plates, etc
- "We need some better defenses" leads to traps, and any defense oriented content to be added
- "We would benefit from a stronger industry", industry related inventions

I came here to suggest this exact thing. I would like to see gnomes be able to tinker on any aspect of their lives. Tinker on beds leads to better beds that give better sleep rates per room worth. Tinker on mining gives better pick axes or allows miners to set light sources as the mine. Tinker on farming allows better farming implements or allows for new methods of farming that are better than the last. Tinkering in military aspects leads to new perks and training rates. Tinkering in weapons leads to new weapons or has a chance of upgrading the effectiveness of current weapons.

I think this allows the player to set priorities for their own kingdoms and allows each kingdom to be different based on play style. Also, it allows people who play on peaceful to ignore military and trap tech while still getting benefits from other aspects of tinkering.

Girlinhat

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2012, 08:33:35 AM »
That's mentioned in the OP  ;)
That's not auto.

Xinvoker

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2012, 08:37:01 AM »
That's mentioned in the OP  ;)
That's not auto.
How is it not auto, it even says "automatically"

Quote
There will also be options to have excess animals in a pasture and corpses to automatically be queued to butcher.

Girlinhat

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Re: Current Gameplay Focus - Management
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2012, 08:39:46 AM »
Oh...  There's my reading comprehension fail of the day.  Excuse my while I go derp alone in the corner.